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It's a general portrait. I'm speaking as a Bernie supporter. Probably most salient, which I think was Peter Thiel's decisive issue, is her seeming to be pro-war and the enthusiastic support of the arms industry (biggest arms deal in history to Saudi Arabia, exports doubled under tenure, etc.), and probably the worst here was showing how she, even against the wishes of many Obama insiders, pursued regime change in Libya to have an 'accomplishment' to campaign on. Then, it would probably be the connections with corruption, via "pay-to-play" as they referred to it through the Clinton Foundation while SOS (particularly with Gulf States), and, after revelations of DWS's corrupt actions in the DNC, the seeming impunity to promote her. Maybe a final concerning image to a Bernie supporter was her position as a cog among the big banks (most poignant here was Wall Street's list for Obama's cabinet, who in fact came to be the cabinet). Arguably it's more about the DC establishment than HRC, and this characterization of her should be taken to task, but this was, in my opinion, the portrait left by WikiLeaks.


My point is that almost none of those positions are backed up by any Wikileaks evidence. It's just comforting to know that there's a big pile of "something" out there, and in it is probably something that supports what you believe.


All of the points I mentioned are backed up by emails from WikiLeaks, directly. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.


Then surely you wouldn't mind linking me to emails which conclusively show, e.g. some evidence of a pay-to-play scheme involving State, CF and Gulf Arab states.



Don't be lazy.


It's a summary of the emails from the creator of WikiLeaks, if you don't believe him than to you WikiLeaks isn't credible. You're asking me to spend 20-30 minutes retrieving and linking when you are probably the only person who would ever see it.

Someone else compiled such a list, please peruse:

http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/

I hope that you are not an American citizen who voted -- you are willfully ignorant, and that is the worst type of voter.


I do vote; what I don't do is let my imagination and bias run wild with insinuation, and I'm not lazy about my evidence. When I have confronted others about what's actually in the Wikileaks dump, nobody has failed to get past the "produce a link to primary evidence supporting your claim" step. Intellectually honest people at least reason from primary evidence when it's available to them.

It's pretty amazing that you can't even do that, and yet you want to lecture and condescend me.


No sorry, I linked you what you asked for. The "most damaging wikileaks" link has all the links to the emails organized by offense. In just the first 20 or so from my skimming there was pay-to-play evidence with the emails they were found in.

You've demonstrated a closed mind about this, and were not willing to look into it yourself, so I think that counts as being willfully ignorant.


I got as far as #3, wherein they cite an emailed article as being one of the key quotes from the email. That's nakedly pushing an agenda, there's no intellectual honesty in that -- it's like me asking you to read The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and then telling everyone how you casually refer to black people using the N-word.

To be frank, it's as honest as I'd expected it to be, and exactly why I wanted you to build your case from primary sources. Anyone can quote trash sources and force the other person to do the fact-checking; you should be able to build the case up from primary sources if there's any there there.


Do you really think Trump will reign over banks or reduce military exports? I'm not asking an asshole question or being rhetorical.

It's just that I can't see how or why would Trump choose to do that, once he is in office.


> Arguably it's more about the DC establishment than HRC

I think many problems WikiLeaks revealed were related to her being beholden to the entrenched interests (including controversial allies, like Saudi Arabia). But yes, :) I considered making this caveat in my original post, because I think you're 70% right. I doubt much will change re banks, but I also doubt he would appoint his cabinet based on a list emailed to him from banking execs. Re war, it's probably best to refer to Peter Thiel on why he so strongly thinks Trump will avoid war. We are currently bombing 7 countries and I'd like to think his not being beholden to the arms industry means he could change that if he wanted, and while he may not, I am more certain he would not do another $80 billion arms export to Gulf States or push for a regime change in a ME country. I don't think anyone who read WikiLeaks and decided to abandon Hillary thought highly of Trump, just the feeling that one is no longer defensible and the other is unknown but at least not beholden.




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